A friend from the states posted a comment up that I thought is worth responding to in a full post...
Ok, I have just read your entire blog just now. I like your ideas, even though I'm not a christian I can see the good in them, however, after reading certain posts I've become opinionated about something...
OK First of all your my friend, and I'm taking the time to comment because I care. This goes back to the post about being lonely. From what I can gather from my research, church is about community (among other things) Now as someone who is as dedicated to his church as you are I am really sad to hear that things are getting lonely for you, I would be asking myself questions, "Is this the right church for me?", "Are other members feeling the same way?" To me Church shouldnt be just about God, but about growing relationships with people who share your faith (inside and outside of church) and if people only feel obligated to do that at church they are missing the point. Then again I could be wrong. I'm going to bed now.
Chris it is great to hear from you and to get your feedback, I appreciate it. I should clarify that when I talk about the church in my posts, I am referring to either
a) A Church Service or
b) The christian community in a certain area. "The Church"
I mix and match the use of the word Church based on what I am talking (ranting?) about.
It's funny you should suggest those two questions that I should be asking, I have been asking these questions and have had interesting answers...
"Is this the right church for me?" - I have asked this one of myself repeatedly and have come to the conclusion that I need to see what other communities are out there, I have started going to a different church in town that seems to have a good group of young adults; I am unsure yet if it is where I want to 'lay roots' but I am open to seeing what they are like.
"Are other members feeling the same way?" - I have been asking other 20-somethings similar questions, I had a very interesting discussion with some friends from out of town, they come from a Christian background and they have been questioning the character of God. Questions like "If heaven is so perfect, why did Satan leave?" or "What about all the suffering in the world, how can a just God allow that?". Personally I believe it is healthy and good to question and re-evaluate what we believe and why we believe. The reaction from the Christian community to them asking these questions has been (in my opinion) shocking. My friends either have been ignored or they have been given the hollow answers rather than actually listening to what is being questioned and giving permission to search for answers. I am quite angry about how they have been treated and it has disillusioned me a little about the church. But I believe that the church still has an important role to play. I came across this quote the other day:
The church is a she.
She's a mystery, isn't she? Still going after all this time. After the Crusades and the Inquisition and Christian cable television. Still going. And there continue to be people like me who believe she is one of the best ideas ever. In spite of all the ways she has veered off track. In spite of all the people who have actually turned away from God because of what they experienced in church. I am starting to realize why: The church is a double edged sword. When it's good, when it's on, when it's right, its like nothing on earth. A group of people committed to selflessly serving and loving the world around them? Great. But when it's bad, all that potential gets turned the other way. From the highest of highs to the lowest of lows. Sometimes in the same week. Sometimes in the same day.
Velvet Elvis - Rob Bell pg. 172
So I'm not giving up on the church yet, but Chris you are right Church is also about community and that sense of connection with others who share that belief.
BTW Newt I'm in hungary tell Edwy to get me a Sandwich +1!!! (inside joke)
6 comments:
Wow... thats really great things to think about. I've had this 'my feet are in too many buckets of things to do here that im just going to stay @ this church' feeling since well... a couple months ago anyway - when i was thinking about what i really want out of my church. Sure, the occasional great music weeks are amazing - but just like Rob Bell said(btw - i think Rob's way of explaing well, everything - is amazing and great to make me reflect on how i feel about the issue and if i agree or disagree with points he makes)in that little quote about when its going, when its good, when its on it truely is an amazing experience and you really do feel like there is nothing better than coming to Church to praise God with your fellow brothers and sisters and it makes you want to do it everyday - rather than the 'i'm turning up because im on something' attitude im saddened to say is what too many people are doing these days, and i can see it in my church.
But like you im going to give up on Church when its having a low. I'll just get up front and cause a ruckass and get people energised to go crazy about God again.
Came here via Rose today - thanks for letting me read - very thought provoking - and by the way - sorry i've written a novel in my response :D
edit***
But like you im NOTgoing to give up on Church when its having a low. I'll just get up front and cause a ruckass and get people energised to go crazy about God again.
haha I hate when you forget a key word in a comment and it makes it sound completly different lol
Cheers for the feedback, its good to see im not the only one out there who is thinking along the same lines :)
hi curtis, your right - i attend the same church that ravvy does and there are times that i turn up because - i am meant to be there but also too - i said that i would do it - so i need to do what i said that i would do.
the church is made up of us (you know frail human beings) so therefore it won't be perfect and that it will be horrible at times and at others it will be suberb!
if we don't try to change then how do we expect the 'church', etc to as well.
that's my 2 cents worth
I was an intern at the church I have left, I spent 5 years as a leader in the youth ministry (2 years leading it) and I made a real effort to change it from within.
Some things had changed for the better but others hadn't, I took the attitude that I can complain about the church or I can work from within to change it and to help bring it into the 2000's. Some things have changed but some didnt.
What changed you may ask? Well people left town, friends moved on. The people who I had a sense of community with either left town or left ministry. The pastors have kept in regular contact and I am friends with them but having peers to spend time with and to "walk the road" with have been scarce. This is one of the reasons I am looking at a different church for that sense of community. God is the same regardless which church it is (even though they may have theological differences)
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